I'm working on a project where the user is able to save their work (most likely to the HDD but also possibly any other media, including floppy disks). Sure, the popular File > Save option is there but what about a toolbar button?
我正在开发一个项目,用户可以保存他们的工作(最有可能是硬盘驱动器,但也可能是其他媒体,包括软盘)。当然,流行的文件>保存选项,但工具栏按钮怎么样?
By far the most popular icon is the floppy disk. However, the chances the user will write to the floppy are pretty slim. Still, I think the floppy is more representational than literal.
到目前为止,最流行的图标是软盘。但是,用户写入软盘的可能性非常小。不过,我认为软盘比文字更具代表性。
In the end, I'll probably stick with the floppy disk icon to keep the convention most users are familiar with but... anybody have any ideas on how to update this old icon?
最后,我可能会坚持使用软盘图标来保持大多数用户熟悉的惯例但是......任何人对如何更新这个旧图标都有任何想法?
31 个解决方案
#1
The floppy disk icon has become the standard for saving files. It's a highly recognizable icon and there's no reason to change that. Consistency between applications is a wonderful thing.
软盘图标已成为保存文件的标准。它是一个高度可识别的图标,没有理由改变它。应用程序之间的一致性是一件很棒的事情。
I suspect that over time the icon will grow more stylized and less like an actual floppy disk once people start forgetting what they look like (or never knew). The icon nowadays represents the concept of saving more than it represents floppy disks anyway.
我怀疑随着时间的推移,一旦人们开始忘记他们的样子(或者从来不知道),图标会变得更加风格化,而不像真正的软盘。现在的图标代表了保存的概念,而不是代表软盘。
#2
As others have said, keep the floppy icon and don't worry. Where I live, this is the warning sign for train crossing:
正如其他人所说,保持软盘图标,不要担心。我居住的地方,这是火车穿越的警告标志:
There haven't been any steam locomotives for 50 years or so, but everyone still knows that this is the symbol for trains. And in the same way, 50 years from now, when your files are stored on Google servers in orbit, everyone will know that the floppy is the symbol for saving your data.
50年左右没有任何蒸汽机车,但每个人都知道这是火车的象征。同样地,从现在起50年后,当您的文件存储在轨道上的Google服务器上时,每个人都会知道软盘是用于保存数据的符号。
#3
Consider the fact that you're using the term "floppy" when in fact the 3.5" disks were not floppy at all. It was just a term that carried over from 5.25" disks because everyone got used to it. The "disk button is save" concept is also what everyone is used to. Stick with it.
考虑到你使用术语“软盘”的事实,实际上3.5英寸磁盘根本不是软盘。它只是一个从5.25“磁盘延续的术语,因为每个人都习惯了它。 “磁盘按钮保存”概念也是每个人习惯的。坚持下去。
#4
Chapter 17: "Rethinking Files and Save" of About Face covers this. Alan Cooper is well-known as a usability expert and his writings are influential. His argument is essentially that when we force the user to think about the implementation, we get ourselves into trouble. Here's a brief excerpt:
第17章:关于Face的“重新思考文件并保存”涵盖了这一点。 Alan Cooper作为可用性专家而闻名,他的着作很有影响力。他的论点基本上就是当我们强迫用户考虑实现时,我们就会遇到麻烦。这是一个简短的摘录:
In the world of digital technology, the place where implementation-model thinking most strikingly rears its ugly head is the management of files and the concept of "save." If you have ever tried to teach your mother how to use a computer, you will know that difficult doesn't really do the problem justice. Things start out all right: You start up the word processor and type a couple sentences. She's with you all the way -- it's like writing on paper. But when you click the Close button, up pops a dialog box asking "Do you want to save changes?" You and Mom hit a wall together. She looks at you and asks, "What does this mean? Is everything okay?"
在数字技术的世界里,实现模型思维最引人注目的地方就是文件管理和“保存”的概念。如果你曾试图教你的母亲如何使用电脑,你会知道困难并不能真正解决问题的正义。事情开始没事:你启动文字处理器并键入几个句子。她一直和你在一起 - 就像写在纸上一样。但是当您单击“关闭”按钮时,向上会弹出一个对话框,询问“您是否要保存更改?”你和妈妈一起撞墙。她看着你,问道:“这意味着什么?一切都好吗?”
This problem is caused by software that forces people to think like computers by unnecessarily making them confront the internal mechanisms of data storage. This isn't just a problem for your mother; even sophisticated computer users can easily become confused or make mistakes. People spend thousands of dollars on hard- ware and software just to confront impertinent questions like "Do you really want me to save this document that you've been working on all afternoon?" and must remember to use to the Save As... command when what they really want to do is work on a copy of the document.
这个问题是由软件引起的,它迫使人们像计算机一样思考,不必要地让他们面对数据存储的内部机制。这对你母亲来说不仅仅是一个问题;即使是复杂的计算机用户也很容易混淆或犯错误。人们花费数千美元购买硬件和软件只是为了面对诸如“你真的希望我保存这份你整个下午一直在工作的文件吗?”这样的问题。并且必须记住使用“另存为...”命令时,他们真正想要做的是处理文档的副本。
It's worth thinking about ways to simplify or eliminate the "save" metaphor.
值得思考简化或消除“拯救”隐喻的方法。
Here on Stack Overflow we can "Post an Answer" or "Add Comment" or "Ask your Question" for example. Each time we really are "saving" to the database, but the metaphor is slightly different each time. Posting, adding, asking. I think of software like iTunes which I believe does not have the concept of "saving to disk" for the music. You simply add music to it and it's saved. Depending on the type of tasks your software carries out, there may be different metaphors which are more apt than save.
在Stack Overflow上,我们可以“发布答案”或“添加评论”或“提出问题”。每次我们真正“保存”到数据库,但每次比喻都略有不同。发布,添加,询问。我认为像iTunes这样的软件,我认为它没有音乐的“保存到磁盘”的概念。您只需向其中添加音乐即可保存。根据您的软件执行的任务类型,可能有不同的隐喻比保存更容易。
I should mention that I've not really answered your question, I myself have used the floppy icon, or a big button that just says "Save" on it in my web applications. For the time being we're stuck with it for many cases, but it gets more and more ridiculous as floppy drives die out. But then, we also say we "dial" phones, when dial-interface phones have not been in popular use for decades.
我应该提一下,我没有真正回答你的问题,我自己使用过软盘图标,或者在我的网络应用程序中只是在其上显示“保存”的大按钮。目前我们在很多情况下都坚持使用它,但随着软盘驱动器消失,它变得越来越荒谬。但是,我们也说我们“拨打”手机,而拨号接口手机已经流行使用了几十年。
#5
Use an icon containing two characters:
使用包含两个字符的图标:
:w
#6
Look at your brand new cell phone's voicemail icon. There's a good chance it's still the 'tape rollers' icon from magnetic tape based home answering machines.
看看你全新的手机的语音信箱图标。它很可能仍然是基于磁带的家庭电话答录机的“磁带滚轮”图标。
EDIT:
Okay, not all phones use the icon, but how about the word 'rewind'? I'm sure a few people out there have devices which allow you to 'rewind' a digitial audio or video media file.
好的,并非所有手机都使用图标,但“倒带”这个词怎么样?我相信那里的一些人有可以让你“回放”数字音频或视频媒体文件的设备。
#7
If you think about it, mail has no "modern" representation either and is still represented by a paper letter.
如果您考虑一下,邮件也没有“现代”的表示,仍然用纸质信函表示。
(image from "It's Time to Change that Metaphor")
(图片来自“改变隐喻的时候”)
As mentioned in the blog entry "The end of an icon"
正如博客文章“图标的结尾”中所提到的
It’s dangerous to base a visual analogy on a moving target. Technology will change. What’s clear and obvious today won’t be in 10 years; so what’s nebulous today will be totally obscure in 10 years. The problem with the floppy icon (beyond the iffy analogy) is the generation gap.
将视觉类比基于移动目标是危险的。技术将发生变化。今天明确而明显的不会是10年;所以今天模糊的东西在十年内会变得十分晦涩难懂。软盘图标(超出iffy类比)的问题是代沟。
Still, as long as the underlying action is clear, that icon will survive.
尽管如此,只要基本行动明确,该图标将继续存在。
(image found in many places, including in this blog post)
(图片发现在很多地方,包括在这篇博文中)
#8
Why do we even need a "save" function? Anything I write should be automatically saved, and in fact Microsoft Word does that already--if it crashes and haven't saved, your data is still recoverable. Google saves drafts automatically. Why do we still use the "save" paradigm?
为什么我们甚至需要“保存”功能?我写的任何内容都应该自动保存,事实上Microsoft Word已经这样做了 - 如果它崩溃但没有保存,你的数据仍然可以恢复。 Google会自动保存草稿。为什么我们仍然使用“拯救”范式?
#9
Tango icon set have an arrow pointing down to a harddrive:
探戈图标集有一个箭头指向一个硬盘:
#10
How about a reel tape drive like they had in the old Sci-Fi movies:
像他们在旧科幻电影中那样的卷轴磁带驱动器怎么样:
+-----+
|() ()|
| \ / |
| W |
+-----+
This icon would be timeless!
这个图标将是永恒的!
#11
So long as most applications continue to use the floppy icon, most users will be familiar with it and your application will benefit from a familiar interface. In economics, this is known as a network externality.
只要大多数应用程序继续使用软盘图标,大多数用户都会熟悉它,您的应用程序将从熟悉的界面中受益。在经济学中,这被称为网络外部性。
#12
If you deviate from the common icons for operations like save, your users are going to say your programs is hard to use. Even if you simplify everything so that you think it's perfectly intuitive and much better than what everyone else is doing, they'll say it's hard to use, just because it's not what they're used to and not what they expect. Remember, to your users, whatever Microsoft and the other big guys do is "correct," so if you're doing something different, you are, by default, wrong.
如果您偏离保存等操作的常用图标,则您的用户会说您的程序很难使用。即使你简化了一切,你认为它比其他人正在做的更直观和更好,但他们会说它很难使用,只是因为它不是他们习惯的而不是他们所期望的。请记住,对于您的用户,无论微软和其他大家伙做什么都是“正确的”,所以如果你做了不同的事情,那么你默认是错的。
Besides, even if your user takes 5 or 10 seconds to figure out where the save button is, that's 5 to 10 seconds of easily avoidable frustration you could have saved them, and it's just one more barrier preventing them from being able to use your app. Obviously, they're not using your app to revel in the joy of clicking a chronologically relevant save icon. They simply want to avoid losing their work and get on with more important things in life.
此外,即使您的用户需要5或10秒钟来确定保存按钮的位置,这可以轻松避免5到10秒的挫折,您可以保存它们,这只是阻碍他们使用您的应用程序的另一个障碍。显然,他们没有使用你的应用程序来陶醉点击按时间顺序相关的保存图标的乐趣。他们只是想避免失去工作,继续生活中更重要的事情。
Stick with the 3.5" disk; it's a financially sound, if creatively poor, choice.
坚持使用3.5英寸磁盘;如果创造性地差,这是一个财务上合理的选择。
#13
When there's a problem with some code we say there's a 'bug' in it, even though the last time that actually happened was over 60 years ago!
当某些代码出现问题时,我们会说它中存在“错误”,即使实际发生的最后一次发生在60多年前!
#14
Not really. As long as it looks likes the more modern "stiffy" rather than floppy.
并不是的。只要它看起来更像现代的“僵硬”而不是软盘。
Memory stick don't really have the same nostalgia. However as more and more modern systems don't include a physical stiffy drive, users of the future may not know what a "stiffy" stand for. As a teenager what a vinyl was and they might think your having a senior moment.
记忆棒真的没有同样的怀旧情绪。然而,随着越来越多的现代系统不包括物理上僵硬的驱动器,未来的用户可能不知道什么是“僵硬”的代表。作为一个青少年,乙烯基是什么,他们可能认为你有一个高级时刻。
Picture of a Safe might imply that you are encrypting with some internal password and storing it so safe it won't be retrievable.
Safe的图片可能意味着您正在使用某些内部密码进行加密并将其存储得如此安全以至于无法检索。
Picture of Server again givies the impression that its to be copied elsewhere.
服务器的图片再次给人一种印象,即将其复制到其他地方。
Stick with the stiffy for the next 5 years
坚持未来5年的僵硬
Cheers
#15
You know, in 50 years, icons won't be needed. If you want to save your work, blink twice, or stand on your head, or just say "Save" in the language of your choice, and voila - it's saved... no need for a visual anymore :)
你知道,在50年内,不需要图标。如果你想保存你的工作,眨眼两次,或站在你的头上,或者只是用你选择的语言说“保存”,瞧 - 它已经保存了......不再需要视觉了:)
I vote using the standard 3.5" icon. When the day comes that it's confusing to users, developers will get plenty of complaints from users saying it's not "user-friendly" enough. As for now, we've been conditioned to look for that disk icon. I used an app once that used a CD icon instead, and it took me a few days to realize that it was used to save. It's all about design consistency and fulfillment of expectations.
我使用标准的3.5“图标进行投票。当一天到来时,它会让用户感到困惑,开发人员会收到很多用户的抱怨,说这不是”用户友好“。至于现在,我们已经习惯于寻找磁盘图标。我曾经使用过一个使用过CD图标的应用程序,我花了几天时间才意识到这是用来保存的。这完全取决于设计的一致性和期望的实现。
#16
Hey guys i think this approach is on to something.
嘿伙计们,我认为这种方法是有目共睹的。
Helveticons摘录,显示一个叉状箭头指向一个3/4圈保存http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/2ims19.png
#17
IMO, icons are useful because they're constant symbols we can associate with different actions. In that sense, the floppy is very appropriate simply because it is nearly universal. Never once in my life have I seen an interface with unfamiliar icons (no text at all) and been able to figure out what it does (I'm looking at you, Mac OS). I think even if you come up with an image that is more true to what is actually going on, such as a picture of a hard drive, you'll cause far more confusion than if you left it alone. Even if people such as myself can identify the icon as a hard drive, that doesn't tell us what you're going to do, it just means a hard drive is somehow involved...
IMO,图标很有用,因为它们是我们可以与不同动作相关联的常量符号。从这个意义上说,软盘非常合适,因为它几乎是通用的。在我生命中从来没有一次我看到一个界面与不熟悉的图标(根本没有文字),并能够弄清楚它做了什么(我在看你,Mac OS)。我认为,即使你想出的图像更真实的是实际发生的事情,比如硬盘的图片,你会比你独自留下更多的混乱。即使像我这样的人可以将图标识别为硬盘驱动器,但这并没有告诉我们你要做什么,这只是意味着硬盘驱动器在某种程度上涉及......
#18
Unfortunately this floppy disk icon has become the universal symbol for saving a document. It is even used in Microsoft Word 2007, virtually untouched. Change it in any way, an it is likely that you will make it unrecognizable to your users as a save symbol.
不幸的是,这个软盘图标已成为保存文档的通用符号。它甚至在Microsoft Word 2007中使用,几乎不受影响。以任何方式更改它,您可能会使其无法识别为用户作为保存符号。
#19
It's still in Windows' standard toolbar image list.
它仍然在Windows的标准工具栏图像列表中。
Nobody has seen a hard-drive, but that doesn't stop the icon from being one. To most users: a hard drive is that box on the floor.
没有人看到硬盘驱动器,但这并不能阻止图标成为一个硬盘。对大多数用户来说:硬盘是地板上的那个盒子。
It's the stylized symbol that is important. The picture can be a red cricket - as long as everyone associates that red cricket with saving.
这是程式化的符号,很重要。这张照片可以是红色的板球 - 只要每个人都将红色板球与拯救相关联。
#20
To be honest, the floppy icon never made much sense to me. It means "disk activity", and it could be Save but Open as well.
说实话,软盘图标对我来说从来没有多大意义。它意味着“磁盘活动”,它也可以是Save但也可以是Open。
The problem is that there is a new generation of users that have never seen a floppy disk (e.g. my 11 years of nephew) and he had to learn that that weird squared thing was Save.
问题是有新一代的用户从未见过软盘(例如我11年的侄子),他必须知道奇怪的平方事物是Save。
I like the icon of a folder with an arrow pointing towards it. Maybe an arrow pointing to a cylinder (a la DB)?
我喜欢带有指向它的箭头的文件夹的图标。也许一个箭头指向一个圆柱体(一个数据库)?
I don't really like the other ideas a lot, so keeping the floppy icon is the default solution. Also, I hate the non-MS big low quality floppy icons some apps use.
我不太喜欢其他想法,因此保留软盘图标是默认解决方案。此外,我讨厌一些应用程序使用的非MS大低质量软盘图标。
Other solution could be a small version of the app icon with a hard drive and the arrow from the first to the second, but that won't look fine on a 16x16 icon.
其他解决方案可能是应用程序图标的小版本,带有硬盘驱动器和从第一个到第二个的箭头,但在16x16图标上看起来不太好。
What's clear is that icon design is science and art. I have a lot of respect for good icon designers.
很明显,图标设计是科学和艺术。我非常尊重优秀的偶像设计师。
#21
Have you ever used HLSS? They use an image of a SD card as a save icon, yet most of the time, I can't pick it out on the toolbar and have to go to File -> Save to save.
你有没有用过HLSS?他们使用SD卡的图像作为保存图标,但大多数时候,我无法在工具栏上选择它并且必须转到文件 - >保存以保存。
So, they present an alternative modern equivalent, yet it doesn't work as well as the ol' 3.5" floppy icon.
因此,它们提供了另一种现代等价物,但它的效果不如ol'3.5“软盘图标。
#22
Users using your application will find it more usable if you use a floppy disk icon. For consistency, if it makes you feel better. It's ubiquitous.
如果您使用软盘图标,使用您的应用程序的用户会发现它更有用。为了保持一致性,如果它让你感觉更好。它无处不在。
#23
I think the nostalgia is neat - everybody knows what it means. I just took a quick look and Outlook still uses an old-school honkin-huge handset icon to make a call.
我认为怀旧是整洁的 - 每个人都知道这意味着什么。我只是快速浏览一下,Outlook仍然使用一个老式的honkin-huge手机图标拨打电话。
#24
Great question. Of the 4 computers I actively use, only 1 even has a 3.5" drive. It is an antiquated technology that I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing replaced even in icon form.
好问题。在我主动使用的4台计算机中,只有1台甚至有3.5英寸的驱动器。这是一种过时的技术,我不会介意甚至以图标形式替换它。
Possible replacements:
- a vault icon. Easily recognizable and symbolic of saving.
- a compact disc symbol. More modern but still capable of being outdated soon.
- ???
保险库图标。易于识别和象征着储蓄。
一个光盘符号。更现代,但仍然能够很快过时。
I'm surprised at most of the responses here. The general consensus seems to be "keep using the floppy since that's what has always been done." Since when has the programmer mentality been to conform to everyone else's ideals? Doing something just because "That's the way it's always been" is no excuse, especially for coders.
我对这里的大部分回复感到惊讶。普遍的共识似乎是“继续使用软盘,因为这是一直以来所做的事情。”从什么时候开始,程序员的心态才能符合其他人的理想?做一件事只是因为“这就是它一直以来的方式”不是借口,特别是对于程序员而言。
#25
Microsoft did a pretty good job of throwing out standard menus and icons in its 2007 office suite. Just about every average/beginner user just hates it for that...
微软在其2007办公套件中抛出标准菜单和图标方面做得相当不错。几乎每个普通/初学者用户都讨厌它......
#26
You could use upload and download (red up and green down arrows) icons for saving and loading. Besides, in a short time network will be most place to save files.
您可以使用上传和下载(红色向上和绿色向下箭头)图标进行保存和加载。此外,在短时间内网络将是保存文件的最佳位置。
#27
Even though many people won't recognize what the icon actually is, they will quickly learn what it means, so I would keep it for consistency with other apps.
尽管许多人不会识别图标实际是什么,但他们会很快了解它的含义,所以我会保持它与其他应用程序的一致性。
In the future, I think the question will become moot as more and more apps will avoid "Save" actions and save each user action automatically. Instead of discarding changes by not saving, people will use "undo" as the dominant paradigm for discarding changes.
在未来,我认为这个问题将变得毫无意义,因为越来越多的应用程序将避免“保存”操作并自动保存每个用户操作。人们将使用“撤销”作为丢弃变化的主导范式,而不是通过不保存来丢弃变更。
#28
It's funny that I found this discussion because I was looking for a standard 'save' icon I could download to replace the 'new and improved' icon that UtlraEdit started using and which was too difficult to pick out on the toolbar. Yes, it is outdated, but everybody recognizes the 3.5" floppy disk image as representing 'save'! Yes, programmers should not be doing things because 'that's the way it's always been done' but icons are language and not methodology. Don't invent a new word just because it would be cool unless your aim is to hide what you are saying from the previous generations.
有趣的是我找到了这个讨论,因为我正在寻找一个标准的“保存”图标,我可以下载以取代UtlraEdit开始使用的“新的和改进的”图标,这个图标在工具栏上很难找到。是的,它已经过时了,但每个人都认为3.5英寸的软盘图像代表'保存'!是的,程序员不应该做的事情,因为'这是它一直以来的方式',但图标是语言而不是方法论。不要发明一个新词只是因为它会很酷,除非你的目标是隐藏你前几代人所说的话。
#29
I think in general the floppy disc icon has become the accepted save icon, even if it doesn't have much bearing any more with flash memory and DVD's being pretty ubiquitous. Frankly, if a program had an icon for saving that was something like a memory stick or HDD, most users wouldn't be able to pick it out as the save icon.
我认为一般来说,软盘图标已成为可接受的保存图标,即使它对闪存和DVD无处不在也没有多大影响。坦率地说,如果一个程序有一个用于保存的图标,就像记忆棒或硬盘驱动器,大多数用户将无法选择它作为保存图标。
#30
As pointed out by others the floppy disk icon is embeded in peoples understanding of computer user interfaces as the standard visual representation of the act of saving something.
The use of the floppy disk icon is a reflection of the technology that was prevailent at the time and so represented something the average user could quickkly associate with the act of saving a file.
正如其他人所指出的那样,软盘图标嵌入在人们对计算机用户界面的理解中,作为保存某些东西的标准视觉表示。软盘图标的使用反映了当时普遍存在的技术,因此代表了普通用户可以快速关联保存文件的行为。
The fact that the action of saving is still visually represented by the floppy disk in spite of it's rapid demise in recent times demonstrates the strength of association between the icon and the act of saving a file. If one were to attempt tp change the icon one would need to choose an image which is
事实上,尽管最近一次快速消亡,但是软盘仍在视觉上表示保存动作,这表明图标与保存文件的行为之间的关联强度。如果要尝试更改图标,则需要选择图像
- Easily associatable with the act of saving as the floppy disk already is
- Likely to remain in use, or at least in recognition, long enough for a sufficiently high number of people to recognise it
可以轻松地与软盘的保存行为联系起来
可能仍然在使用,或者至少在认可中,足够长的时间让足够多的人认识到它
While I do acknowlege that the floppy disk has certainly outlived it's usefulness as the primary storage media of choice, I don't see it's role as the save icon ending in the near future.
虽然我确实认为软盘肯定已经超过它作为首选存储媒体的实用性,但我不认为它在不久的将来会成为保存图标。
If the icon were to change I believe major OS and hardware vendors would need to support such a change, which I don't believe is likely as doing so would potentially alienate a large number of existing users
如果图标要改变,我相信主要的操作系统和硬件供应商需要支持这样的改变,我不相信这样做可能会疏远大量现有用户
#1
The floppy disk icon has become the standard for saving files. It's a highly recognizable icon and there's no reason to change that. Consistency between applications is a wonderful thing.
软盘图标已成为保存文件的标准。它是一个高度可识别的图标,没有理由改变它。应用程序之间的一致性是一件很棒的事情。
I suspect that over time the icon will grow more stylized and less like an actual floppy disk once people start forgetting what they look like (or never knew). The icon nowadays represents the concept of saving more than it represents floppy disks anyway.
我怀疑随着时间的推移,一旦人们开始忘记他们的样子(或者从来不知道),图标会变得更加风格化,而不像真正的软盘。现在的图标代表了保存的概念,而不是代表软盘。
#2
As others have said, keep the floppy icon and don't worry. Where I live, this is the warning sign for train crossing:
正如其他人所说,保持软盘图标,不要担心。我居住的地方,这是火车穿越的警告标志:
There haven't been any steam locomotives for 50 years or so, but everyone still knows that this is the symbol for trains. And in the same way, 50 years from now, when your files are stored on Google servers in orbit, everyone will know that the floppy is the symbol for saving your data.
50年左右没有任何蒸汽机车,但每个人都知道这是火车的象征。同样地,从现在起50年后,当您的文件存储在轨道上的Google服务器上时,每个人都会知道软盘是用于保存数据的符号。
#3
Consider the fact that you're using the term "floppy" when in fact the 3.5" disks were not floppy at all. It was just a term that carried over from 5.25" disks because everyone got used to it. The "disk button is save" concept is also what everyone is used to. Stick with it.
考虑到你使用术语“软盘”的事实,实际上3.5英寸磁盘根本不是软盘。它只是一个从5.25“磁盘延续的术语,因为每个人都习惯了它。 “磁盘按钮保存”概念也是每个人习惯的。坚持下去。
#4
Chapter 17: "Rethinking Files and Save" of About Face covers this. Alan Cooper is well-known as a usability expert and his writings are influential. His argument is essentially that when we force the user to think about the implementation, we get ourselves into trouble. Here's a brief excerpt:
第17章:关于Face的“重新思考文件并保存”涵盖了这一点。 Alan Cooper作为可用性专家而闻名,他的着作很有影响力。他的论点基本上就是当我们强迫用户考虑实现时,我们就会遇到麻烦。这是一个简短的摘录:
In the world of digital technology, the place where implementation-model thinking most strikingly rears its ugly head is the management of files and the concept of "save." If you have ever tried to teach your mother how to use a computer, you will know that difficult doesn't really do the problem justice. Things start out all right: You start up the word processor and type a couple sentences. She's with you all the way -- it's like writing on paper. But when you click the Close button, up pops a dialog box asking "Do you want to save changes?" You and Mom hit a wall together. She looks at you and asks, "What does this mean? Is everything okay?"
在数字技术的世界里,实现模型思维最引人注目的地方就是文件管理和“保存”的概念。如果你曾试图教你的母亲如何使用电脑,你会知道困难并不能真正解决问题的正义。事情开始没事:你启动文字处理器并键入几个句子。她一直和你在一起 - 就像写在纸上一样。但是当您单击“关闭”按钮时,向上会弹出一个对话框,询问“您是否要保存更改?”你和妈妈一起撞墙。她看着你,问道:“这意味着什么?一切都好吗?”
This problem is caused by software that forces people to think like computers by unnecessarily making them confront the internal mechanisms of data storage. This isn't just a problem for your mother; even sophisticated computer users can easily become confused or make mistakes. People spend thousands of dollars on hard- ware and software just to confront impertinent questions like "Do you really want me to save this document that you've been working on all afternoon?" and must remember to use to the Save As... command when what they really want to do is work on a copy of the document.
这个问题是由软件引起的,它迫使人们像计算机一样思考,不必要地让他们面对数据存储的内部机制。这对你母亲来说不仅仅是一个问题;即使是复杂的计算机用户也很容易混淆或犯错误。人们花费数千美元购买硬件和软件只是为了面对诸如“你真的希望我保存这份你整个下午一直在工作的文件吗?”这样的问题。并且必须记住使用“另存为...”命令时,他们真正想要做的是处理文档的副本。
It's worth thinking about ways to simplify or eliminate the "save" metaphor.
值得思考简化或消除“拯救”隐喻的方法。
Here on Stack Overflow we can "Post an Answer" or "Add Comment" or "Ask your Question" for example. Each time we really are "saving" to the database, but the metaphor is slightly different each time. Posting, adding, asking. I think of software like iTunes which I believe does not have the concept of "saving to disk" for the music. You simply add music to it and it's saved. Depending on the type of tasks your software carries out, there may be different metaphors which are more apt than save.
在Stack Overflow上,我们可以“发布答案”或“添加评论”或“提出问题”。每次我们真正“保存”到数据库,但每次比喻都略有不同。发布,添加,询问。我认为像iTunes这样的软件,我认为它没有音乐的“保存到磁盘”的概念。您只需向其中添加音乐即可保存。根据您的软件执行的任务类型,可能有不同的隐喻比保存更容易。
I should mention that I've not really answered your question, I myself have used the floppy icon, or a big button that just says "Save" on it in my web applications. For the time being we're stuck with it for many cases, but it gets more and more ridiculous as floppy drives die out. But then, we also say we "dial" phones, when dial-interface phones have not been in popular use for decades.
我应该提一下,我没有真正回答你的问题,我自己使用过软盘图标,或者在我的网络应用程序中只是在其上显示“保存”的大按钮。目前我们在很多情况下都坚持使用它,但随着软盘驱动器消失,它变得越来越荒谬。但是,我们也说我们“拨打”手机,而拨号接口手机已经流行使用了几十年。
#5
Use an icon containing two characters:
使用包含两个字符的图标:
:w
#6
Look at your brand new cell phone's voicemail icon. There's a good chance it's still the 'tape rollers' icon from magnetic tape based home answering machines.
看看你全新的手机的语音信箱图标。它很可能仍然是基于磁带的家庭电话答录机的“磁带滚轮”图标。
EDIT:
Okay, not all phones use the icon, but how about the word 'rewind'? I'm sure a few people out there have devices which allow you to 'rewind' a digitial audio or video media file.
好的,并非所有手机都使用图标,但“倒带”这个词怎么样?我相信那里的一些人有可以让你“回放”数字音频或视频媒体文件的设备。
#7
If you think about it, mail has no "modern" representation either and is still represented by a paper letter.
如果您考虑一下,邮件也没有“现代”的表示,仍然用纸质信函表示。
(image from "It's Time to Change that Metaphor")
(图片来自“改变隐喻的时候”)
As mentioned in the blog entry "The end of an icon"
正如博客文章“图标的结尾”中所提到的
It’s dangerous to base a visual analogy on a moving target. Technology will change. What’s clear and obvious today won’t be in 10 years; so what’s nebulous today will be totally obscure in 10 years. The problem with the floppy icon (beyond the iffy analogy) is the generation gap.
将视觉类比基于移动目标是危险的。技术将发生变化。今天明确而明显的不会是10年;所以今天模糊的东西在十年内会变得十分晦涩难懂。软盘图标(超出iffy类比)的问题是代沟。
Still, as long as the underlying action is clear, that icon will survive.
尽管如此,只要基本行动明确,该图标将继续存在。
(image found in many places, including in this blog post)
(图片发现在很多地方,包括在这篇博文中)
#8
Why do we even need a "save" function? Anything I write should be automatically saved, and in fact Microsoft Word does that already--if it crashes and haven't saved, your data is still recoverable. Google saves drafts automatically. Why do we still use the "save" paradigm?
为什么我们甚至需要“保存”功能?我写的任何内容都应该自动保存,事实上Microsoft Word已经这样做了 - 如果它崩溃但没有保存,你的数据仍然可以恢复。 Google会自动保存草稿。为什么我们仍然使用“拯救”范式?
#9
Tango icon set have an arrow pointing down to a harddrive:
探戈图标集有一个箭头指向一个硬盘:
#10
How about a reel tape drive like they had in the old Sci-Fi movies:
像他们在旧科幻电影中那样的卷轴磁带驱动器怎么样:
+-----+
|() ()|
| \ / |
| W |
+-----+
This icon would be timeless!
这个图标将是永恒的!
#11
So long as most applications continue to use the floppy icon, most users will be familiar with it and your application will benefit from a familiar interface. In economics, this is known as a network externality.
只要大多数应用程序继续使用软盘图标,大多数用户都会熟悉它,您的应用程序将从熟悉的界面中受益。在经济学中,这被称为网络外部性。
#12
If you deviate from the common icons for operations like save, your users are going to say your programs is hard to use. Even if you simplify everything so that you think it's perfectly intuitive and much better than what everyone else is doing, they'll say it's hard to use, just because it's not what they're used to and not what they expect. Remember, to your users, whatever Microsoft and the other big guys do is "correct," so if you're doing something different, you are, by default, wrong.
如果您偏离保存等操作的常用图标,则您的用户会说您的程序很难使用。即使你简化了一切,你认为它比其他人正在做的更直观和更好,但他们会说它很难使用,只是因为它不是他们习惯的而不是他们所期望的。请记住,对于您的用户,无论微软和其他大家伙做什么都是“正确的”,所以如果你做了不同的事情,那么你默认是错的。
Besides, even if your user takes 5 or 10 seconds to figure out where the save button is, that's 5 to 10 seconds of easily avoidable frustration you could have saved them, and it's just one more barrier preventing them from being able to use your app. Obviously, they're not using your app to revel in the joy of clicking a chronologically relevant save icon. They simply want to avoid losing their work and get on with more important things in life.
此外,即使您的用户需要5或10秒钟来确定保存按钮的位置,这可以轻松避免5到10秒的挫折,您可以保存它们,这只是阻碍他们使用您的应用程序的另一个障碍。显然,他们没有使用你的应用程序来陶醉点击按时间顺序相关的保存图标的乐趣。他们只是想避免失去工作,继续生活中更重要的事情。
Stick with the 3.5" disk; it's a financially sound, if creatively poor, choice.
坚持使用3.5英寸磁盘;如果创造性地差,这是一个财务上合理的选择。
#13
When there's a problem with some code we say there's a 'bug' in it, even though the last time that actually happened was over 60 years ago!
当某些代码出现问题时,我们会说它中存在“错误”,即使实际发生的最后一次发生在60多年前!
#14
Not really. As long as it looks likes the more modern "stiffy" rather than floppy.
并不是的。只要它看起来更像现代的“僵硬”而不是软盘。
Memory stick don't really have the same nostalgia. However as more and more modern systems don't include a physical stiffy drive, users of the future may not know what a "stiffy" stand for. As a teenager what a vinyl was and they might think your having a senior moment.
记忆棒真的没有同样的怀旧情绪。然而,随着越来越多的现代系统不包括物理上僵硬的驱动器,未来的用户可能不知道什么是“僵硬”的代表。作为一个青少年,乙烯基是什么,他们可能认为你有一个高级时刻。
Picture of a Safe might imply that you are encrypting with some internal password and storing it so safe it won't be retrievable.
Safe的图片可能意味着您正在使用某些内部密码进行加密并将其存储得如此安全以至于无法检索。
Picture of Server again givies the impression that its to be copied elsewhere.
服务器的图片再次给人一种印象,即将其复制到其他地方。
Stick with the stiffy for the next 5 years
坚持未来5年的僵硬
Cheers
#15
You know, in 50 years, icons won't be needed. If you want to save your work, blink twice, or stand on your head, or just say "Save" in the language of your choice, and voila - it's saved... no need for a visual anymore :)
你知道,在50年内,不需要图标。如果你想保存你的工作,眨眼两次,或站在你的头上,或者只是用你选择的语言说“保存”,瞧 - 它已经保存了......不再需要视觉了:)
I vote using the standard 3.5" icon. When the day comes that it's confusing to users, developers will get plenty of complaints from users saying it's not "user-friendly" enough. As for now, we've been conditioned to look for that disk icon. I used an app once that used a CD icon instead, and it took me a few days to realize that it was used to save. It's all about design consistency and fulfillment of expectations.
我使用标准的3.5“图标进行投票。当一天到来时,它会让用户感到困惑,开发人员会收到很多用户的抱怨,说这不是”用户友好“。至于现在,我们已经习惯于寻找磁盘图标。我曾经使用过一个使用过CD图标的应用程序,我花了几天时间才意识到这是用来保存的。这完全取决于设计的一致性和期望的实现。
#16
Hey guys i think this approach is on to something.
嘿伙计们,我认为这种方法是有目共睹的。
Helveticons摘录,显示一个叉状箭头指向一个3/4圈保存http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/2ims19.png
#17
IMO, icons are useful because they're constant symbols we can associate with different actions. In that sense, the floppy is very appropriate simply because it is nearly universal. Never once in my life have I seen an interface with unfamiliar icons (no text at all) and been able to figure out what it does (I'm looking at you, Mac OS). I think even if you come up with an image that is more true to what is actually going on, such as a picture of a hard drive, you'll cause far more confusion than if you left it alone. Even if people such as myself can identify the icon as a hard drive, that doesn't tell us what you're going to do, it just means a hard drive is somehow involved...
IMO,图标很有用,因为它们是我们可以与不同动作相关联的常量符号。从这个意义上说,软盘非常合适,因为它几乎是通用的。在我生命中从来没有一次我看到一个界面与不熟悉的图标(根本没有文字),并能够弄清楚它做了什么(我在看你,Mac OS)。我认为,即使你想出的图像更真实的是实际发生的事情,比如硬盘的图片,你会比你独自留下更多的混乱。即使像我这样的人可以将图标识别为硬盘驱动器,但这并没有告诉我们你要做什么,这只是意味着硬盘驱动器在某种程度上涉及......
#18
Unfortunately this floppy disk icon has become the universal symbol for saving a document. It is even used in Microsoft Word 2007, virtually untouched. Change it in any way, an it is likely that you will make it unrecognizable to your users as a save symbol.
不幸的是,这个软盘图标已成为保存文档的通用符号。它甚至在Microsoft Word 2007中使用,几乎不受影响。以任何方式更改它,您可能会使其无法识别为用户作为保存符号。
#19
It's still in Windows' standard toolbar image list.
它仍然在Windows的标准工具栏图像列表中。
Nobody has seen a hard-drive, but that doesn't stop the icon from being one. To most users: a hard drive is that box on the floor.
没有人看到硬盘驱动器,但这并不能阻止图标成为一个硬盘。对大多数用户来说:硬盘是地板上的那个盒子。
It's the stylized symbol that is important. The picture can be a red cricket - as long as everyone associates that red cricket with saving.
这是程式化的符号,很重要。这张照片可以是红色的板球 - 只要每个人都将红色板球与拯救相关联。
#20
To be honest, the floppy icon never made much sense to me. It means "disk activity", and it could be Save but Open as well.
说实话,软盘图标对我来说从来没有多大意义。它意味着“磁盘活动”,它也可以是Save但也可以是Open。
The problem is that there is a new generation of users that have never seen a floppy disk (e.g. my 11 years of nephew) and he had to learn that that weird squared thing was Save.
问题是有新一代的用户从未见过软盘(例如我11年的侄子),他必须知道奇怪的平方事物是Save。
I like the icon of a folder with an arrow pointing towards it. Maybe an arrow pointing to a cylinder (a la DB)?
我喜欢带有指向它的箭头的文件夹的图标。也许一个箭头指向一个圆柱体(一个数据库)?
I don't really like the other ideas a lot, so keeping the floppy icon is the default solution. Also, I hate the non-MS big low quality floppy icons some apps use.
我不太喜欢其他想法,因此保留软盘图标是默认解决方案。此外,我讨厌一些应用程序使用的非MS大低质量软盘图标。
Other solution could be a small version of the app icon with a hard drive and the arrow from the first to the second, but that won't look fine on a 16x16 icon.
其他解决方案可能是应用程序图标的小版本,带有硬盘驱动器和从第一个到第二个的箭头,但在16x16图标上看起来不太好。
What's clear is that icon design is science and art. I have a lot of respect for good icon designers.
很明显,图标设计是科学和艺术。我非常尊重优秀的偶像设计师。
#21
Have you ever used HLSS? They use an image of a SD card as a save icon, yet most of the time, I can't pick it out on the toolbar and have to go to File -> Save to save.
你有没有用过HLSS?他们使用SD卡的图像作为保存图标,但大多数时候,我无法在工具栏上选择它并且必须转到文件 - >保存以保存。
So, they present an alternative modern equivalent, yet it doesn't work as well as the ol' 3.5" floppy icon.
因此,它们提供了另一种现代等价物,但它的效果不如ol'3.5“软盘图标。
#22
Users using your application will find it more usable if you use a floppy disk icon. For consistency, if it makes you feel better. It's ubiquitous.
如果您使用软盘图标,使用您的应用程序的用户会发现它更有用。为了保持一致性,如果它让你感觉更好。它无处不在。
#23
I think the nostalgia is neat - everybody knows what it means. I just took a quick look and Outlook still uses an old-school honkin-huge handset icon to make a call.
我认为怀旧是整洁的 - 每个人都知道这意味着什么。我只是快速浏览一下,Outlook仍然使用一个老式的honkin-huge手机图标拨打电话。
#24
Great question. Of the 4 computers I actively use, only 1 even has a 3.5" drive. It is an antiquated technology that I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing replaced even in icon form.
好问题。在我主动使用的4台计算机中,只有1台甚至有3.5英寸的驱动器。这是一种过时的技术,我不会介意甚至以图标形式替换它。
Possible replacements:
- a vault icon. Easily recognizable and symbolic of saving.
- a compact disc symbol. More modern but still capable of being outdated soon.
- ???
保险库图标。易于识别和象征着储蓄。
一个光盘符号。更现代,但仍然能够很快过时。
I'm surprised at most of the responses here. The general consensus seems to be "keep using the floppy since that's what has always been done." Since when has the programmer mentality been to conform to everyone else's ideals? Doing something just because "That's the way it's always been" is no excuse, especially for coders.
我对这里的大部分回复感到惊讶。普遍的共识似乎是“继续使用软盘,因为这是一直以来所做的事情。”从什么时候开始,程序员的心态才能符合其他人的理想?做一件事只是因为“这就是它一直以来的方式”不是借口,特别是对于程序员而言。
#25
Microsoft did a pretty good job of throwing out standard menus and icons in its 2007 office suite. Just about every average/beginner user just hates it for that...
微软在其2007办公套件中抛出标准菜单和图标方面做得相当不错。几乎每个普通/初学者用户都讨厌它......
#26
You could use upload and download (red up and green down arrows) icons for saving and loading. Besides, in a short time network will be most place to save files.
您可以使用上传和下载(红色向上和绿色向下箭头)图标进行保存和加载。此外,在短时间内网络将是保存文件的最佳位置。
#27
Even though many people won't recognize what the icon actually is, they will quickly learn what it means, so I would keep it for consistency with other apps.
尽管许多人不会识别图标实际是什么,但他们会很快了解它的含义,所以我会保持它与其他应用程序的一致性。
In the future, I think the question will become moot as more and more apps will avoid "Save" actions and save each user action automatically. Instead of discarding changes by not saving, people will use "undo" as the dominant paradigm for discarding changes.
在未来,我认为这个问题将变得毫无意义,因为越来越多的应用程序将避免“保存”操作并自动保存每个用户操作。人们将使用“撤销”作为丢弃变化的主导范式,而不是通过不保存来丢弃变更。
#28
It's funny that I found this discussion because I was looking for a standard 'save' icon I could download to replace the 'new and improved' icon that UtlraEdit started using and which was too difficult to pick out on the toolbar. Yes, it is outdated, but everybody recognizes the 3.5" floppy disk image as representing 'save'! Yes, programmers should not be doing things because 'that's the way it's always been done' but icons are language and not methodology. Don't invent a new word just because it would be cool unless your aim is to hide what you are saying from the previous generations.
有趣的是我找到了这个讨论,因为我正在寻找一个标准的“保存”图标,我可以下载以取代UtlraEdit开始使用的“新的和改进的”图标,这个图标在工具栏上很难找到。是的,它已经过时了,但每个人都认为3.5英寸的软盘图像代表'保存'!是的,程序员不应该做的事情,因为'这是它一直以来的方式',但图标是语言而不是方法论。不要发明一个新词只是因为它会很酷,除非你的目标是隐藏你前几代人所说的话。
#29
I think in general the floppy disc icon has become the accepted save icon, even if it doesn't have much bearing any more with flash memory and DVD's being pretty ubiquitous. Frankly, if a program had an icon for saving that was something like a memory stick or HDD, most users wouldn't be able to pick it out as the save icon.
我认为一般来说,软盘图标已成为可接受的保存图标,即使它对闪存和DVD无处不在也没有多大影响。坦率地说,如果一个程序有一个用于保存的图标,就像记忆棒或硬盘驱动器,大多数用户将无法选择它作为保存图标。
#30
As pointed out by others the floppy disk icon is embeded in peoples understanding of computer user interfaces as the standard visual representation of the act of saving something.
The use of the floppy disk icon is a reflection of the technology that was prevailent at the time and so represented something the average user could quickkly associate with the act of saving a file.
正如其他人所指出的那样,软盘图标嵌入在人们对计算机用户界面的理解中,作为保存某些东西的标准视觉表示。软盘图标的使用反映了当时普遍存在的技术,因此代表了普通用户可以快速关联保存文件的行为。
The fact that the action of saving is still visually represented by the floppy disk in spite of it's rapid demise in recent times demonstrates the strength of association between the icon and the act of saving a file. If one were to attempt tp change the icon one would need to choose an image which is
事实上,尽管最近一次快速消亡,但是软盘仍在视觉上表示保存动作,这表明图标与保存文件的行为之间的关联强度。如果要尝试更改图标,则需要选择图像
- Easily associatable with the act of saving as the floppy disk already is
- Likely to remain in use, or at least in recognition, long enough for a sufficiently high number of people to recognise it
可以轻松地与软盘的保存行为联系起来
可能仍然在使用,或者至少在认可中,足够长的时间让足够多的人认识到它
While I do acknowlege that the floppy disk has certainly outlived it's usefulness as the primary storage media of choice, I don't see it's role as the save icon ending in the near future.
虽然我确实认为软盘肯定已经超过它作为首选存储媒体的实用性,但我不认为它在不久的将来会成为保存图标。
If the icon were to change I believe major OS and hardware vendors would need to support such a change, which I don't believe is likely as doing so would potentially alienate a large number of existing users
如果图标要改变,我相信主要的操作系统和硬件供应商需要支持这样的改变,我不相信这样做可能会疏远大量现有用户