I was watching the match between Ian Nepomniachtchi vs Hikaru Nakamura and Nakamura used both hands to castle.
我正在观看Ian Nepomniachtchi和Hikaru Nakamura之间的比赛,Nakamura用双手去城堡。
Why is it illegal to castle using both hands? What's wrong with that?
为什么用双手城堡是违法的?这有什么问题?
8 个解决方案
#1
18
I know in general the rules say the hand you move your piece with has to be the one that hits the clock. If you castled with two hands which one would you use to hit the clock? This might be part of the reason for the rule saying you can only castle with 1 hand.
我知道一般来说规则说你移动你的棋子的手必须是那个击中时钟的手。如果你用两只手施了一只手,你会用它来打钟吗?这可能是规则说你只能用一只手守城的原因的一部分。
#2
15
Disclaimer: this is probably not the answer, but it makes for interesting thinking.
免责声明:这可能不是答案,但它有助于思考。
This reminds me of a string bet in poker. String bets are illegal, because they can be used to gain information – “I’ll see your $5”… < watches opponent’s face> "… and raise you $20”.
这让我想起了扑克中的字符串赌注。字符串投注是非法的,因为它们可以用来获取信息 - “我会看到你的5美元”...... <看着对手的脸> “......然后筹集你20美元”。
By moving the king first, you are making what would otherwise be an illegal move (moving the king by more than one square) and cannot “string bet”.
通过首先移动国王,你正在制造本来是非法移动(将国王移动超过一个方格)并且不能“串打赌”。
If you were to move the rook first, you might observe your opponent’s face, then quickly choose to move the king, claiming that you had intended to castle all along.
如果你先移动车,你可能会观察对手的脸,然后迅速选择移动国王,声称你原本打算一直在城堡。
#3
14
The official procedure to castle is (Schiller 2003:19–20 from Wikipedia):
城堡的官方程序是(Schiller 2003:19-20来自*):
first move the king with one hand and then move the rook with the same hand.
首先用一只手移动国王,然后用同一只手移动车。
By using both hands the player can save time, as would by as using different hands for moving (like promoting a pawn to queen) or moving with a hand and hitting the clock with the other.
通过使用双手,玩家可以节省时间,就像使用不同的手进行移动(如将棋子推向女王)或用手移动并用另一只手击打时钟一样。
#4
9
why is it illegal to castle with both hands?
为什么用双手搭建城堡是违法的?
Because the rules say so.
From the FIDE Laws of Chess -
因为规则是这样说的。来自国际象棋的FIDE法则 -
7.5.4 If a player uses two hands to make a single move (for example in case of castling, capturing or promotion) and pressed the clock, it shall be considered and penalized as if an illegal move.
7.5.4如果一名运动员使用两只手进行一次动作(例如在铸造,捕获或晋升的情况下)并按下时钟,则应将其视为非法移动并受到处罚。
#5
8
Chess rules are all about sequence. If you use two hands, you don't know which happened first. So you always use one hand. First, you make your move, then you hit the clock.
国际象棋规则都是关于序列的。如果你用两只手,你不知道先发生了哪一只。所以你总是用一只手。首先,你移动,然后你打了时钟。
As others have pointed out, the rook move alone could be one or two moves. Maybe, you were just moving your rook, maybe you were castling. The King move, however, does determine the one and only move. There is no other King move that allows the King to move two squares. By moving the King first, then moving the rook, there are no questions as to the real move. The Rook, while being part of the move, is forced. Because this is a sequence, you have to use one hand to play it.
正如其他人所指出的那样,单车行动可能只有一两步。也许,你只是在移动你的车,也许你是在铸造。然而,国王的举动确实决定了这一举动。没有其他的国王移动允许国王移动两个方格。通过首先移动国王,然后移动车,没有关于真实移动的问题。作为此举的一部分,鲁克*。因为这是一个序列,你必须用一只手来播放它。
As a side note, if you could use both hands, and you were playing with a clock, you could move the rook and hit the clock with one hand, and move the king with the other hand, and then there would be a sequence argument whether the king had moved before or after the clock hit, and thus whether it was a rook move or a castle. By requiring one hand to do all three (king, then rook, then clock), there is no question as to what went on. The king moved two squares first. That defined the move. Then the rook moved (with the same hand), then the clock was hit after the board was in a valid situation. No arguments.
作为旁注,如果你可以使用双手,并且你正在玩一个时钟,你可以用一只手移动车辆并用另一只手移动国王,然后会有一个序列参数国王是否在时钟之前或之后移动,因此无论是车辆移动还是城堡。通过要求一只手完成所有三个(国王,然后是车,然后是时钟),毫无疑问是什么进行了。国王先移动了两个方格。这定义了这一举措。然后车子(用同一只手)移动,然后在电路板处于有效状态后时钟被击中。没有争论。
#6
1
It's because you can't save yourself time by moving with more than one hand like that. Imagine one minutes where people did that. Castle would be over powered for time management reasons. Therefore, you castle with one hand, and the problem is avoided.
这是因为你不能通过不止一只手移动来节省自己的时间。想象一下人们做到这一点的一分钟。由于时间管理原因,城堡将过度供电。因此,你单手城堡,避免问题。
#7
1
It would permit a rather interesting ambiguity on the board.
这将使董事会有一个相当有趣的模糊性。
Many have mentioned that the king has to move 2 spaces first, so that there's only one possible valid thing to do. So let's assume we do this.
许多人提到国王必须首先移动2个空间,因此只有一个可能有效的事情要做。所以我们假设我们这样做。
With one hand, move the king two spaces. Once the king is in place (proving you intend to castle), the other hand grabs the rook and moves it. Meanwhile, the first hand goes to hit the clock.
用一只手将王移动两个空间。一旦国王到位(证明你打算城堡),另一只手抓住车并移动它。与此同时,第一手就是时钟。
It is possible that the first hand hits the clock before the rook is moved. Now you have a really funny situation where your hands are still moving pieces while it is the opponent's turn! Needless to say, this could be a big deal, especially if the winning move is to take that rook.
在车移动之前,第一只手可能会击中时钟。现在你有一个非常有趣的情况,你的手仍在移动棋子,而对手轮到你了!毋庸置疑,这可能是一个大问题,特别是如果获胜的举动是采取那个车。
To avoid this case, one needs rules which ensure that all pieces are in their final position before the clock is pressed. Whatever rule FIDE chose, this is the key requirement placed on that rule. Hands off the board when it's not your turn!
为了避免这种情况,需要一些规则来确保在按下时钟之前所有部件都处于最终位置。无论FIDE选择什么规则,这都是该规则的关键要求。当轮到你的时候离开董事会!
If we use pi caluclus we can define a process where the clock press must occur after both moves are complete, regardless of which hand does what. So in theory, one might define a different rule which permits two-handed operation. However, in real life practical situations, such definitions are unreasonable. They work great with transistors and wires, and less well with human hands. Instead, we simplify the process by not allowing things to happen in parallel.
如果我们使用pi caluclus,我们可以定义一个过程,在两个动作完成后必须按下时钟,无论哪个手做什么。所以从理论上讲,人们可能会定义一个允许双手操作的不同规则。但是,在现实生活中的实际情况中,这种定义是不合理的。它们在晶体管和电线上工作得很好,而在人手上则不太好。相反,我们通过不允许事物并行发生来简化流程。
#8
0
In chess, whenever you touch a piece, you MUST move that piece. If you were to begin castling using two hands, and then removed your hands, it would be unclear which piece you would be required to move. This is why it must be done with one hand.
在国际象棋中,每当你触摸一块时,你必须移动那块。如果你要用两只手开始铸造,然后移开你的手,那么你将不清楚需要移动哪一块。这就是必须用一只手完成的原因。
#1
18
I know in general the rules say the hand you move your piece with has to be the one that hits the clock. If you castled with two hands which one would you use to hit the clock? This might be part of the reason for the rule saying you can only castle with 1 hand.
我知道一般来说规则说你移动你的棋子的手必须是那个击中时钟的手。如果你用两只手施了一只手,你会用它来打钟吗?这可能是规则说你只能用一只手守城的原因的一部分。
#2
15
Disclaimer: this is probably not the answer, but it makes for interesting thinking.
免责声明:这可能不是答案,但它有助于思考。
This reminds me of a string bet in poker. String bets are illegal, because they can be used to gain information – “I’ll see your $5”… < watches opponent’s face> "… and raise you $20”.
这让我想起了扑克中的字符串赌注。字符串投注是非法的,因为它们可以用来获取信息 - “我会看到你的5美元”...... <看着对手的脸> “......然后筹集你20美元”。
By moving the king first, you are making what would otherwise be an illegal move (moving the king by more than one square) and cannot “string bet”.
通过首先移动国王,你正在制造本来是非法移动(将国王移动超过一个方格)并且不能“串打赌”。
If you were to move the rook first, you might observe your opponent’s face, then quickly choose to move the king, claiming that you had intended to castle all along.
如果你先移动车,你可能会观察对手的脸,然后迅速选择移动国王,声称你原本打算一直在城堡。
#3
14
The official procedure to castle is (Schiller 2003:19–20 from Wikipedia):
城堡的官方程序是(Schiller 2003:19-20来自*):
first move the king with one hand and then move the rook with the same hand.
首先用一只手移动国王,然后用同一只手移动车。
By using both hands the player can save time, as would by as using different hands for moving (like promoting a pawn to queen) or moving with a hand and hitting the clock with the other.
通过使用双手,玩家可以节省时间,就像使用不同的手进行移动(如将棋子推向女王)或用手移动并用另一只手击打时钟一样。
#4
9
why is it illegal to castle with both hands?
为什么用双手搭建城堡是违法的?
Because the rules say so.
From the FIDE Laws of Chess -
因为规则是这样说的。来自国际象棋的FIDE法则 -
7.5.4 If a player uses two hands to make a single move (for example in case of castling, capturing or promotion) and pressed the clock, it shall be considered and penalized as if an illegal move.
7.5.4如果一名运动员使用两只手进行一次动作(例如在铸造,捕获或晋升的情况下)并按下时钟,则应将其视为非法移动并受到处罚。
#5
8
Chess rules are all about sequence. If you use two hands, you don't know which happened first. So you always use one hand. First, you make your move, then you hit the clock.
国际象棋规则都是关于序列的。如果你用两只手,你不知道先发生了哪一只。所以你总是用一只手。首先,你移动,然后你打了时钟。
As others have pointed out, the rook move alone could be one or two moves. Maybe, you were just moving your rook, maybe you were castling. The King move, however, does determine the one and only move. There is no other King move that allows the King to move two squares. By moving the King first, then moving the rook, there are no questions as to the real move. The Rook, while being part of the move, is forced. Because this is a sequence, you have to use one hand to play it.
正如其他人所指出的那样,单车行动可能只有一两步。也许,你只是在移动你的车,也许你是在铸造。然而,国王的举动确实决定了这一举动。没有其他的国王移动允许国王移动两个方格。通过首先移动国王,然后移动车,没有关于真实移动的问题。作为此举的一部分,鲁克*。因为这是一个序列,你必须用一只手来播放它。
As a side note, if you could use both hands, and you were playing with a clock, you could move the rook and hit the clock with one hand, and move the king with the other hand, and then there would be a sequence argument whether the king had moved before or after the clock hit, and thus whether it was a rook move or a castle. By requiring one hand to do all three (king, then rook, then clock), there is no question as to what went on. The king moved two squares first. That defined the move. Then the rook moved (with the same hand), then the clock was hit after the board was in a valid situation. No arguments.
作为旁注,如果你可以使用双手,并且你正在玩一个时钟,你可以用一只手移动车辆并用另一只手移动国王,然后会有一个序列参数国王是否在时钟之前或之后移动,因此无论是车辆移动还是城堡。通过要求一只手完成所有三个(国王,然后是车,然后是时钟),毫无疑问是什么进行了。国王先移动了两个方格。这定义了这一举措。然后车子(用同一只手)移动,然后在电路板处于有效状态后时钟被击中。没有争论。
#6
1
It's because you can't save yourself time by moving with more than one hand like that. Imagine one minutes where people did that. Castle would be over powered for time management reasons. Therefore, you castle with one hand, and the problem is avoided.
这是因为你不能通过不止一只手移动来节省自己的时间。想象一下人们做到这一点的一分钟。由于时间管理原因,城堡将过度供电。因此,你单手城堡,避免问题。
#7
1
It would permit a rather interesting ambiguity on the board.
这将使董事会有一个相当有趣的模糊性。
Many have mentioned that the king has to move 2 spaces first, so that there's only one possible valid thing to do. So let's assume we do this.
许多人提到国王必须首先移动2个空间,因此只有一个可能有效的事情要做。所以我们假设我们这样做。
With one hand, move the king two spaces. Once the king is in place (proving you intend to castle), the other hand grabs the rook and moves it. Meanwhile, the first hand goes to hit the clock.
用一只手将王移动两个空间。一旦国王到位(证明你打算城堡),另一只手抓住车并移动它。与此同时,第一手就是时钟。
It is possible that the first hand hits the clock before the rook is moved. Now you have a really funny situation where your hands are still moving pieces while it is the opponent's turn! Needless to say, this could be a big deal, especially if the winning move is to take that rook.
在车移动之前,第一只手可能会击中时钟。现在你有一个非常有趣的情况,你的手仍在移动棋子,而对手轮到你了!毋庸置疑,这可能是一个大问题,特别是如果获胜的举动是采取那个车。
To avoid this case, one needs rules which ensure that all pieces are in their final position before the clock is pressed. Whatever rule FIDE chose, this is the key requirement placed on that rule. Hands off the board when it's not your turn!
为了避免这种情况,需要一些规则来确保在按下时钟之前所有部件都处于最终位置。无论FIDE选择什么规则,这都是该规则的关键要求。当轮到你的时候离开董事会!
If we use pi caluclus we can define a process where the clock press must occur after both moves are complete, regardless of which hand does what. So in theory, one might define a different rule which permits two-handed operation. However, in real life practical situations, such definitions are unreasonable. They work great with transistors and wires, and less well with human hands. Instead, we simplify the process by not allowing things to happen in parallel.
如果我们使用pi caluclus,我们可以定义一个过程,在两个动作完成后必须按下时钟,无论哪个手做什么。所以从理论上讲,人们可能会定义一个允许双手操作的不同规则。但是,在现实生活中的实际情况中,这种定义是不合理的。它们在晶体管和电线上工作得很好,而在人手上则不太好。相反,我们通过不允许事物并行发生来简化流程。
#8
0
In chess, whenever you touch a piece, you MUST move that piece. If you were to begin castling using two hands, and then removed your hands, it would be unclear which piece you would be required to move. This is why it must be done with one hand.
在国际象棋中,每当你触摸一块时,你必须移动那块。如果你要用两只手开始铸造,然后移开你的手,那么你将不清楚需要移动哪一块。这就是必须用一只手完成的原因。