It doesn't take long when surfing the web to observe the general consensus that Flash is an expected standard, that it's okay to say "If you don't have Flash, my website won't work." Yet in the same regard, JavaScript is expected to degrade peacefully if the user does not have it enabled.
在浏览网页上花费很长时间来观察Flash是预期标准的普遍共识,可以说“如果你没有Flash,我的网站将无法运行。”但同样,如果用户没有启用JavaScript,预计JavaScript会降级。
I personally favor the "HTML5" approach, in opposition to Flash, due to the poor performance Flash brings to Mac OS X and Linux
由于Flash为Mac OS X和Linux带来了糟糕的性能,我个人赞成采用与HTML相对的“HTML5”方法
The overall outlook of the Flash way vs. the JavaScript way seems like the biggest challenge to me in Steve Job's prediction of HTML5 overtaking Flash, and I personally haven't seen any sign of change.
Flash方式与JavaScript方式的整体前景似乎是史蒂夫乔布斯预测HTML5超越Flash的最大挑战,我个人没有看到任何变化的迹象。
Am I missing something?
我错过了什么吗?
6 个解决方案
#1
1
You're talking about almost entirely different groups of people with very different worldviews. That's why they say two different things. Very few people are both gung-ho Flash fanatics and slavish adherents to progressive enhancement.
你说的是几乎完全不同的人群,他们的世界观非常不同。这就是为什么他们说两件不同的事情。很少有人都是*的*分子和*的追随者,以逐步提升。
For the people who support Javascript, one of the big reasons many do so is that it's an open standard with free implementations that is accessible to anybody, not just those favored by Adobe. This feeling that Web content should be available to everybody on the Web also makes them hostile to Javascript that takes the same "My way or the highway" stance that led them to reject Flash.
对于支持Javascript的人来说,许多人这样做的一个重要原因是它是一个开放的标准,任何人都可以访问免费实现,而不仅仅是那些受Adobe青睐的人。这种Web内容应该可供Web上的所有人使用的感觉也使他们对使用相同的“我的方式或高速公路”姿态的Javascript充满敌意,导致他们拒绝Flash。
#2
3
HTML5 will probably not kill Flash. Although I'm an Actionscript 3 developer, I have little love for Adobe and if anyone is going to kill Flash, I believe it will be Adobe themselves by failing to adapt.
HTML5可能不会杀死Flash。虽然我是一个Actionscript 3的开发人员,但我对Adobe没什么好感,如果有人想杀死Flash,我相信它本身就是Adobe本身,因为它无法适应。
Web standards are great but inevitably changes take for ever.Solutions developed by smaller entities can implement changes and adapt faster. Look at how JQuery changed the perception of Javascript. Most people have already forgotten that until recently there was very little love for Javascript, which is probably where the degrade gracefully attitude comes from.
Web标准很好,但不可避免地会发生变化。由较小实体开发的解决方案可以实现变更并更快地适应。看看JQuery如何改变对Javascript的看法。大多数人已经忘记了直到最近才对Javascript很少有兴趣,这可能是降低优雅态度的地方。
The consensus is now to complain about Flash , the real shame is what Adobe has done with it , or more to the point hasn't done to improve it. I agree with Steve Jobs on that one, Adobe are either lazy or misguided. In any case totally inefficient.
现在的共识是抱怨Flash,真正的耻辱是Adobe用它做了什么,或者更多的是没有做到改善它。我同意史蒂夫乔布斯的说法,Adobe要么是懒惰的,要么是误导的。在任何情况下都完全没有效率。
In my view there's nothing wrong with a plugin, provided it works as expected and with a penetration above 90% , Flash has/had the potential to become a standard itself... in another world that is.
在我看来,插件没有任何问题,只要它按预期工作并且渗透率超过90%,Flash就有可能成为自己的标准......在另一个世界中。
#3
1
It's not OK to say either of those, in the general case. However for some it's acceptable to give up on having a working site for some percentage of users.
在一般情况下,这两种说法都不行。但是对于某些人来说,放弃为某些用户提供工作站点是可以接受的。
#4
1
It depends on the kind of project you are developing for.
这取决于您正在开发的项目类型。
It's only safe to assume the user will be able do interact only with the HTML (that's why it's a good idea to hijax your form instead of assuming the user will be able to run your ajax function)
假设用户只能与HTML进行交互是唯一安全的(这就是为什么hijax你的表单而不是假设用户能够运行你的ajax函数的好主意)
As for FLASH I aways assume it will be unavailable to a small be considerable group of users (iphone, and ipad user won't be able to interact with your flash)
至于FLASH,我认为它对一小部分用户来说是不可用的(iphone和ipad用户将无法与你的闪存进行交互)
So basically, when developing a portal I assume that:
基本上,在开发门户网站时,我认为:
- The user browser will be able to display HTML
- There's a great probability that the user's browser will be able to interpret javascript
- There's a considerably smaller probability that the user will have the flash plugin
用户浏览器将能够显示HTML
用户的浏览器很有可能能够解释javascript
用户拥有Flash插件的可能性要小得多
My rule of thumb is: If you have to have flash at all use it for non-important stuff. All important stuff should be able to work fine with just HTML
我的经验法则是:如果你必须使用闪光灯,则将其用于非重要的东西。所有重要的东西应该能够只用HTML工作
#5
0
The reason is because Flash has a penetration of around 99% of all internet connected computers, and acts exactly the same across the board. Flash has many features which are not replaceable (until very recently, thanks to HTML5 and better JavaScript implementations) While JavaScript implementations are all incomplete as well as varying in between browsers.
原因是因为Flash在所有互联网连接的计算机中的渗透率约为99%,并且全面行为完全相同。 Flash有许多不可替换的功能(直到最近,由于HTML5和更好的JavaScript实现),虽然JavaScript实现都是不完整的,并且在浏览器之间有所不同。
I'm not a flash developer, but I'm guessing there would be different methodologies too. The whole mantra of modern web development is a sort of additive synthesis, so you start with something basic, then work up from there, building up features as you go along.
我不是一个Flash开发人员,但我猜也会有不同的方法。现代Web开发的全部咒语是一种附加的综合,所以你从一些基本的东西开始,然后从那里开始工作,随着你的进展构建功能。
The real reason is that if you use flash on your website, you probably don't give a toss about things like accessibility and other minor concerns.
真正的原因是,如果您在网站上使用Flash,您可能不会对可访问性和其他小问题进行折腾。
JavaScript developers are also much nicer people.
JavaScript开发人员也是更好的人。
#6
0
Typically JavaScript is used to support basic but important operations, and being important goes hand in hand with high usage frequency, large audience, possibly business critical. Thus it is important that they require "peaceful degradation".
通常,JavaScript用于支持基本但重要的操作,并且重要的是与高使用频率,大量受众,可能是关键业务密切相关。因此,重要的是它们需要“和平退化”。
Flash tends to be used for splashy stuff, like games, heavy UI apps (like paint style programs). These tend to be less important and so less reason for them to degrade peacefully.
Flash往往被用于引人注目的东西,比如游戏,重型UI应用程序(如绘画风格程序)。这些往往不那么重要,因此没有理由让它们和平地退化。
For example, I can see the Flash part of Google's analytics site making way for HTML5 in the future. It is suited to it. But something like Google's street view I see no real reason to go down the HTML5 route for it (although I suspect they still might).
例如,我可以看到Google的分析网站的Flash部分将来会为HTML5让路。它适合它。但是像谷歌的街景一样,我认为没有真正的理由去为HTML5路线(尽管我怀疑他们仍然可能)。
#1
1
You're talking about almost entirely different groups of people with very different worldviews. That's why they say two different things. Very few people are both gung-ho Flash fanatics and slavish adherents to progressive enhancement.
你说的是几乎完全不同的人群,他们的世界观非常不同。这就是为什么他们说两件不同的事情。很少有人都是*的*分子和*的追随者,以逐步提升。
For the people who support Javascript, one of the big reasons many do so is that it's an open standard with free implementations that is accessible to anybody, not just those favored by Adobe. This feeling that Web content should be available to everybody on the Web also makes them hostile to Javascript that takes the same "My way or the highway" stance that led them to reject Flash.
对于支持Javascript的人来说,许多人这样做的一个重要原因是它是一个开放的标准,任何人都可以访问免费实现,而不仅仅是那些受Adobe青睐的人。这种Web内容应该可供Web上的所有人使用的感觉也使他们对使用相同的“我的方式或高速公路”姿态的Javascript充满敌意,导致他们拒绝Flash。
#2
3
HTML5 will probably not kill Flash. Although I'm an Actionscript 3 developer, I have little love for Adobe and if anyone is going to kill Flash, I believe it will be Adobe themselves by failing to adapt.
HTML5可能不会杀死Flash。虽然我是一个Actionscript 3的开发人员,但我对Adobe没什么好感,如果有人想杀死Flash,我相信它本身就是Adobe本身,因为它无法适应。
Web standards are great but inevitably changes take for ever.Solutions developed by smaller entities can implement changes and adapt faster. Look at how JQuery changed the perception of Javascript. Most people have already forgotten that until recently there was very little love for Javascript, which is probably where the degrade gracefully attitude comes from.
Web标准很好,但不可避免地会发生变化。由较小实体开发的解决方案可以实现变更并更快地适应。看看JQuery如何改变对Javascript的看法。大多数人已经忘记了直到最近才对Javascript很少有兴趣,这可能是降低优雅态度的地方。
The consensus is now to complain about Flash , the real shame is what Adobe has done with it , or more to the point hasn't done to improve it. I agree with Steve Jobs on that one, Adobe are either lazy or misguided. In any case totally inefficient.
现在的共识是抱怨Flash,真正的耻辱是Adobe用它做了什么,或者更多的是没有做到改善它。我同意史蒂夫乔布斯的说法,Adobe要么是懒惰的,要么是误导的。在任何情况下都完全没有效率。
In my view there's nothing wrong with a plugin, provided it works as expected and with a penetration above 90% , Flash has/had the potential to become a standard itself... in another world that is.
在我看来,插件没有任何问题,只要它按预期工作并且渗透率超过90%,Flash就有可能成为自己的标准......在另一个世界中。
#3
1
It's not OK to say either of those, in the general case. However for some it's acceptable to give up on having a working site for some percentage of users.
在一般情况下,这两种说法都不行。但是对于某些人来说,放弃为某些用户提供工作站点是可以接受的。
#4
1
It depends on the kind of project you are developing for.
这取决于您正在开发的项目类型。
It's only safe to assume the user will be able do interact only with the HTML (that's why it's a good idea to hijax your form instead of assuming the user will be able to run your ajax function)
假设用户只能与HTML进行交互是唯一安全的(这就是为什么hijax你的表单而不是假设用户能够运行你的ajax函数的好主意)
As for FLASH I aways assume it will be unavailable to a small be considerable group of users (iphone, and ipad user won't be able to interact with your flash)
至于FLASH,我认为它对一小部分用户来说是不可用的(iphone和ipad用户将无法与你的闪存进行交互)
So basically, when developing a portal I assume that:
基本上,在开发门户网站时,我认为:
- The user browser will be able to display HTML
- There's a great probability that the user's browser will be able to interpret javascript
- There's a considerably smaller probability that the user will have the flash plugin
用户浏览器将能够显示HTML
用户的浏览器很有可能能够解释javascript
用户拥有Flash插件的可能性要小得多
My rule of thumb is: If you have to have flash at all use it for non-important stuff. All important stuff should be able to work fine with just HTML
我的经验法则是:如果你必须使用闪光灯,则将其用于非重要的东西。所有重要的东西应该能够只用HTML工作
#5
0
The reason is because Flash has a penetration of around 99% of all internet connected computers, and acts exactly the same across the board. Flash has many features which are not replaceable (until very recently, thanks to HTML5 and better JavaScript implementations) While JavaScript implementations are all incomplete as well as varying in between browsers.
原因是因为Flash在所有互联网连接的计算机中的渗透率约为99%,并且全面行为完全相同。 Flash有许多不可替换的功能(直到最近,由于HTML5和更好的JavaScript实现),虽然JavaScript实现都是不完整的,并且在浏览器之间有所不同。
I'm not a flash developer, but I'm guessing there would be different methodologies too. The whole mantra of modern web development is a sort of additive synthesis, so you start with something basic, then work up from there, building up features as you go along.
我不是一个Flash开发人员,但我猜也会有不同的方法。现代Web开发的全部咒语是一种附加的综合,所以你从一些基本的东西开始,然后从那里开始工作,随着你的进展构建功能。
The real reason is that if you use flash on your website, you probably don't give a toss about things like accessibility and other minor concerns.
真正的原因是,如果您在网站上使用Flash,您可能不会对可访问性和其他小问题进行折腾。
JavaScript developers are also much nicer people.
JavaScript开发人员也是更好的人。
#6
0
Typically JavaScript is used to support basic but important operations, and being important goes hand in hand with high usage frequency, large audience, possibly business critical. Thus it is important that they require "peaceful degradation".
通常,JavaScript用于支持基本但重要的操作,并且重要的是与高使用频率,大量受众,可能是关键业务密切相关。因此,重要的是它们需要“和平退化”。
Flash tends to be used for splashy stuff, like games, heavy UI apps (like paint style programs). These tend to be less important and so less reason for them to degrade peacefully.
Flash往往被用于引人注目的东西,比如游戏,重型UI应用程序(如绘画风格程序)。这些往往不那么重要,因此没有理由让它们和平地退化。
For example, I can see the Flash part of Google's analytics site making way for HTML5 in the future. It is suited to it. But something like Google's street view I see no real reason to go down the HTML5 route for it (although I suspect they still might).
例如,我可以看到Google的分析网站的Flash部分将来会为HTML5让路。它适合它。但是像谷歌的街景一样,我认为没有真正的理由去为HTML5路线(尽管我怀疑他们仍然可能)。